A Rock
Monsters of the Construction Site
Posts: 507
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Post by A Rock on Feb 12, 2021 21:18:04 GMT
Though perhaps what I said is a bit reductive. Kind of want someone who has a better memory than me to recount stuff....
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Post by Supervisor Silverclaw on Feb 12, 2021 21:19:22 GMT
TBH, I don't think you can be mad at a Returnee winner in this game anyways. All 3 fought incredibly valiantly to still be here. I mean I can't deny the effort, but did any of them like...change their gameplay pre/post getting voted out? Honest question. I think what Rey did Rey always does and reached the point of the game where that worked, Cleric got voted out twice so they got merge to learn, and I think the only change for Grogu is T&H decided that they wanted to work with Grogu rather than kill them. Grogu definitely played hardball the second he came back in and stopped being salty. Rey's vote was more a matter of droids misunderstanding how the vote worked than any particular failing by Rey, but she's made the best of her shitty circumstances and didn't get hit by the revolving door unlike the rest of the Hole. Cleric admittedly deserves it the least, but you can't argue that he hasn't been through the ringer this game moreso than anyone else has. For a new player, he caught on to his mistakes and has been working to fix them basically all game, and had the clutch moment in flatland as well to secure him his spot here.
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Phoenix
Monsters of the Construction Site
Rose from ashes :D
Posts: 1,380
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 12, 2021 21:21:41 GMT
Good last question, spam!
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Phoenix
Monsters of the Construction Site
Rose from ashes :D
Posts: 1,380
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 12, 2021 21:22:07 GMT
Anyone that puts Bonbon at like 200$s is my favorite!
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A Rock
Monsters of the Construction Site
Posts: 507
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Post by A Rock on Feb 12, 2021 21:22:09 GMT
I don't buy that Grogu has no salt left and isn't playing hardball the reason why they were targeted in the first place? Or at least won't that be the perception of the jury?
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Phoenix
Monsters of the Construction Site
Rose from ashes :D
Posts: 1,380
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 12, 2021 21:22:35 GMT
Spam, you might wanna put like a price range tho otherwise u might get weird ass numbers
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Phoenix
Monsters of the Construction Site
Rose from ashes :D
Posts: 1,380
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 12, 2021 21:22:45 GMT
say like 0-20 or something
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Post by Supervisor Silverclaw on Feb 12, 2021 21:27:02 GMT
I don't buy that Grogu has no salt left and isn't playing hardball the reason why they were targeted in the first place? Or at least won't that be the perception of the jury? The reason Grogu got targeted was originally because he was on a tribe with Avocado, Bard, Bees, Droids, and T/H. Everyone else was so interconnected that it left Grogu with little room to maneuver - at which point he promptly overplayed hard and hardpushed Bees [sidenote, why is Bees the person everyone overplays to push out?] Since Grogu came back, he managed to make good connections with the people who voted him out (which is an impressive feat considering he was DEAD TO RIGHTS AT THE SHIPWRECK) and play hard without going overboard.
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A Rock
Monsters of the Construction Site
Posts: 507
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Post by A Rock on Feb 12, 2021 21:29:03 GMT
Okay, that's a fair case. Now onto step 2, will they be able to sell it in a way that doesn't get the jury mad?
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Spam
Monsters of the Construction Site
Posts: 428
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Post by Spam on Feb 12, 2021 21:33:38 GMT
The main difference I see on Grogu is that he's been playing harder and been much more invested. If he gets to the end and the game goes the way he's planning, I think he would be deserving.
I don't think Rey has had THAT hard of a path though. Most of the rounds in the hole were pretty easy, while everyone else had to navigate lots of tribe swaps and survive on small tribes. She did survive the double elimination round and advantagegeddon, though, and that's impressive.
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Spam
Monsters of the Construction Site
Posts: 428
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Post by Spam on Feb 12, 2021 21:35:49 GMT
Spam, you might wanna put like a price range tho otherwise u might get weird ass numbers I said percentage chance, so they'll have to pick a number from 0 to 100, and all of their prices will have to add up to 100.
But now I'm worried I didn't make that clear enough.
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Post by Supervisor Silverclaw on Feb 12, 2021 21:36:00 GMT
I'm biased there because I don't think the jury really should be mad at returnees, but if you want me to be honest yes.
Grogu has fingers everywhere. He's been the deciding vote on what happens so far in the merge, and he's making the pushes for the people he wants to see out. He's the vote everyone wants to court. This game is so focused on the Dave vs. Bardvocado narrative that it allowed for Grogu to slip into a position where everyone needs him to be alive but no one can touch.
If Grogu didn't go to exile, his game would be indistinguishable from a normal game because it basically was one - his time in Exile with Ranger amounted to little positive gain for him [the 3 cents he got didn't help him much, and neither did Ranger]. The bigger benefit was giving him a few rounds to stabilize in more than anything else, and even then he had to use in a way that didn't make everyone decide that he was a lost cause worth removing again.
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Can Opener
Monsters of the Construction Site
Posts: 642
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Post by Can Opener on Feb 12, 2021 21:37:34 GMT
I'm not sure I agree, and I honestly don't get where the sentiment comes from. Like, if a returnee plays well, it's often because of the fact that they got voted out prior. It's a chance to fix your mistakes and move forward. To be a returnee and not get revolving door'd out means you really put in the effort, and I feel like that should be applauded to some extent. I guess the way I see it, in Survivor a lot of what is good or bad is subjective right? Like being a huge target can be good play if it means you survive despite being targeted or bad play if it made your path to the end unnecessarily risky. There are ways to sell most styles of play, and most styles of play can be good in specific circumstances. One of the few objectively bad things you can do in Survivor is get voted out. Like arguably the number one goal of the game is to avoid being voted out, and if you fail to do that, to me that will always, always set you back as a player. Maybe there are mitigating circumstances, like reasons you didn't fully deserve to go when you did. I'm willing to take those into consideration. But if you get voted out, to me that is a weakness, not a strength. And so often with returnees, they treat getting voted out and returning and not immediately going home as a strength, like it's something that in and of itself is impressive enough to deserve a Jury vote and like, no. Not getting voted out is the baseline, and you've already failed it. So the rest of your game must be really fucking impressive to make up for it. The argument that "oh I didn't get revolving doored" to me is bullshit because most players don't get the chance to be revolving doored, because when most players get voted out, that's the end for them. And really, getting voted out probably hurts your relationships, but it does significantly lower your threat level. In many ways, it's an advantage. It doesn't matter to me what work you did to get back into the game. Returning to the game is a gift. You were given a gift that 90% of people voted out do not get. I've never entered any kind of Redemption Island situation after getting voted out in a game. When I get voted out, for me that's always been the end. You can still play a good game having been voted out and returned, but it is a black mark on your game, especially if there are no extenuating circumstances which can partially excuse your initial elimination. And in order to make up for it, I think you need to play an aggressive, proactive game in which you have agency and influence and get yourself into the best possible F3 or F2 you can.
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Phoenix
Monsters of the Construction Site
Rose from ashes :D
Posts: 1,380
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Post by Phoenix on Feb 12, 2021 21:41:10 GMT
Spam, you might wanna put like a price range tho otherwise u might get weird ass numbers I said percentage chance, so they'll have to pick a number from 0 to 100, and all of their prices will have to add up to 100.
But now I'm worried I didn't make that clear enough.
Ah um
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Post by Owen Wilson as Kenny Bostick on Feb 12, 2021 21:45:43 GMT
But does he actually know who is the reason for this perception. Cause gotta say, I kinda want to see everyone start looking at T&H and Grogu. No one has the slightest clue because everyone's so laser focused on Bardvoacdave, that they won't see it until it's too late. Even past Bardvocado and Dave it's just like "MAGGIE IS THE REAL POWER" or "challenge threat droids"! Grogu and T&H are so deeply under the radar while having their hands elbow deep in everything. It's quite a position they're in. I don't buy that Grogu has no salt left and isn't playing hardball the reason why they were targeted in the first place? Or at least won't that be the perception of the jury? Grogu was voted out the first time because he swapped into a minority, said help I'm a replacement player and have no friends, and people started getting ready to adopt him, then the alternate boots won immunity and he was toast. Then yes he played hardball on the way out the door, in fact he went scorched earth and burned his entire reputation on the way out. He was like villain #1 in the entire game upon his return. The way he's dug out of that hole has been astounding.
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